This is our longest interview ever! Josh Kramer was so much into it, he added his own questions. Now that's what we like: someone who shares our desire to please the public. Now it's time for me to stop babbling and for you to get to reading. Well, what are you waiting for? Start reading … !
Josh, what have you been up to?
Saint has just been scheduled to play at the Bob Fest USA. held in San Bernardino, Calif. on Aug. 27 at the Roosevelt Bowl with as many Sanctuary bands as we can scrape together. This gig should be huge! Fans are already going nuts about it and will be flying, bussing, driving, hitchhiking in from all over! I've been bugging Mike Lee to come back and do the gig with Barren Cross but he lives in France now and says he can't swim that far … Excuses! Excuses!
Saint's website is saintsite.com for purchases, information and contact with the band. My personal website is going to go radio silent for a while because I am changing providers. It's still up and running at present. Check it out. If you try to go there and you get page not found, hang tight, it will be back up and running eventually. It is saint777.net The best and presently most reliable link at present for the most exhaustive info, interviews and fan interaction, go to mrsaintfan.freewebspace.com
Life has been a wild ride for me since 1988.
After Too Late for Living was released in 1988, we still were wondering what was going on. The record company was being vague about how many albums were being sold by them and kept telling us that we hadn't reached recoup level. They never gave us a touring budget, so we rotted, and starved.
If you want to know exactly how many albums we sold from Too Late for Living and Times End, ask Rich. He has the confirmed numbers.
Someone recently on a message board assumed that we only sold 5,000 or 6,000 total albums combined, but where they got that information is beyond me. Rich Lynch recieved royalty statements stating that Times End through Pure Metal sold about 30,000 pieces and Too Late for Living sold a little more than 48,000 pieces, grossing Pure Metal over $1 million before they went bankrupt and vanished without a trace. In royalties combined I just recently found out that we were paid about $700. I personally made $13. I wanted to frame it and hang it on the wall but I needed the money.
Melodic Christian and secular metal was coming to a slow and arthritic crawl in 1989 and so ended the chapter of my life with Saint at that time. just before the release of the fourth album and the day after we played the HIS Festival in California.
With many misunderstandings, differing views, the slow decline of 80's metalheads, and no financial compensation from the record companies … poof, we're gone. I wanted to see my family anyway after many years of being away from them in addition to the need for camaraderie with fellow believer metal heads in Sanctuary South Bay Redondo Beach, California. Okay, and because the weather is most often beautiful and the surf was irresistible to me.
The interest to hang out with long hairs like me in the Christian music culture prompted me to go to Southern California to get fellowship with Sanctuary South Bay with Pastor Bob Beeman. I totally loved being there. I met so many great people that welcomed me with open arms and blessed my life. Rich Lynch and I lost touch, I got stranded without enough money to return to Salem in time to meet the deadline for the next recording project. Rich had to let me go and find another singer to get the job done. I got married a couple of years later, became my wife's guitarist and backing vocalist. We persued her career first at secular pop, then migrated to Nashville to develop her country music career and finally her Christian pop music career.
We separated in 2001. Rich Lynch and I struck up a dialog to consider reforming Saint. He sent me some song ideas on CD and I liked some of them. We then began to develop ideas for the album "In the Battle." I had no idea how popular we were around the world. My audio book rock opera, "Nicolas" was born in 2000 from a journal which was inspired by a weird, wild and life-changing dream.
I gave away everything to neighbors and friends revolving around being a home owner including the home to my ex-wife. My new motto became, "Just less stuff." I then packed everything left over that I owned into the bed of my pickup in tow behind My dear friends and close brother and sister in the Lord, Greg and Suzanne Westfall in December 2002.
I then moved to the Northwest to reunite with Rich and embark on our newest and most powerful project ever with a new sense of strength and empowerment from on high as lead vocalist, second lead, rhythm guitarist and song writer with Saint.
Fans wondered where the band was in 1989 or if we were going to release any new material. In 1997, Richard Lynch reissued all three Saint albums on a two CD set. Then in 1999, Saint released the CD entitled "The Perfect Life" which was more of a modern sound with a couple of classic sounding Saint songs with Tim Lamberson as lead vocalist doing a fine job at it. Later in 1999, Saint would work along with M8 Distribution to re-issue Warriors of the Son with The Gentiles demo, Too Late for Living and "Times End" with a live show from Cornerstone 1986. The production of this album was considered very disappointing.
Well into 2002 I was in total emotional and spiritual collapse from my divorce and substance abuse. I started writing a book in 2000 about Nicolas of Myra.
I knew it was time to make some serious changes in my life. Finding my renewed strength in Christ in June 2002, with my new anointing, getting baptized, new faith and firm foundation built on Jesus Christ, I shed the layers of addictions and foolishness. The time to move west came and off I went. Two powerful songs were born from the ashes, Full Armor and Cold Day.
Cold Day is way too mellow for Saint but I am releasing it as a special solo project and a music video depicting Nicolas being tried and convicted for preaching the gospel, rebelling against the system and sacrificing his personal comforts to help others out of tough situations. All of which got him in trouble with the law of the land, contributing to his arrest and dungeon experience.
Scott Sifton, the remarkable guitarist from Contagious is putting together a solo project and will be featuring me on vocals. I'll contribute to some of the song writing. We are not forming a band as that would be a conflict of interest with Saint.
It is great to have Dee Harrington back in the band. I like Tim's voice especially now. He has improved a lot and is more aggressive. He is now our new drummer. Having him in the band will is great because he can sing and do backing vocals. What he did on the Perfect Life was well done and on it's own is really enjoyable music but it wasn't what Saint fans expected of us. Live we want him to sing, "To live forever." It is really a great song and he sings supurbly. I'll do backing vocals. It will sound killer. I love the album. It has some really interesting moments and rocks.
What am I doing these days? Currently my day consists of working 8 or more hours at my day job of which I am currently a multitasker-superintendent-supervisor on construction projects. I'm the lead painter, gardner, minor plumbing, minor electrical and occaisional office manager. We have 4 facilities on the West Coast. They are Salem Oregon, Tacoma, Spanaway Washington, and also I oversee and personally take care of the president of the company's personal residences here and in Southern California.
I sit at the keyboard all night answering fan mail, doing interviews, audition actor after actor to do dialog repairs, and work with professional sketch artists for the audio book, "Nicolas The Legend."
Okay, we've got to ask: In Saint's long career have you ever been sued by Rob Halford for sounding so much like him?
No. Frankly, I think if a comparison is to be drawn, I think I sound more like Jim Morrison of The Doors with a wider range. Actually you've got it all wrong, it's Rob that sounds like me. Tell ya what, if he sues me for sounding like myself he can have my thrashed 10 year old pick up truck with 150,000 miles on it and send me a bill. To be vocally compared to his unbelievable abilities is one of the highest compliments any metal singer could receive. I just sing the songs the way they are meant to be sung per the song writers in the manner by which the songs are written. What comes out is what comes out.
What is up with this "Nicolas" CD and how have the fans reacted to it?
So far everyone that's gotten a copy seems to enjoy it. The only bad reviews are that some of the characters lose their accents, including me … oops. Also, people complained that part one left them wondering what was going to happen next. I guess that is a good problem. No one knows to ask for it specifically because it has been more of a Saint collector thing without any advertising. I threw in a surprise copy with Saint CD orders or just gave a bunch of them away for fun and as Christmas gifts. Some people have donated large chunks of cash for their copies out of the goodness of their hearts. It is under reconstruction at the moment and won't be for sale for a while.
Recently a few folks have asked permission to do theater plays of it and asked how much to pay me. I just tell them to donate it to the tsunami disaster relief or the benevelent fund of their church. It is payment enough that they want to honor me with a performance in their community. Nicolas the audio book is now distributed with C.D. Baby distributors and other distributers. Author House Publishing is now publishing my paperback edition of the rock opera "Nicolas" as a novel. It's an adventure story based on a guy shrouded in myth and legend. There are plenty of factual historic events in the story with embellishments in an attempt to fill the mysterious gaps surrounding the most famous and misrepresented man of all time. Saint Bishop Nicolas of Myra. The real deal, although it is not intended to be a historical account of his life because there is a good amount of creative license in it. So far it has only gotten favourable reviews. Look for it soon at barnesandnoble.com
Why did you guys re-release "Warriors Of The Son," trying to make up for the money the label ripped off you 20 years ago?
Oh yeah, them, too … That is all water under the bridge. Actually we wanted to practice on Rich Lynch's new recording toys and work out the bugs with the Warriors project. We love the old songs and wanted to revive them with better musicianship and production. Now I don't cringe as much when I hear my voice singing those great classics. Sadly John Mahan was unavailable to participate.
Is the Saint gig planned for Aug. 27 just a one-time thing or will we see more?
It better not just be a one time thing!
How did you get involved in the new Liberty n' Justice CD? What did you think of the song you sang "Up That Hill"?
It was a total surprise and blessing to be invited to participate on this project with such notable musicians. Justin and I struck up a dialog almost a year ago and enjoyed being flown there to Peoria, Ill. to work with Mike Layne who is one of the finest world-class producer-engineers I've ever had the pleasure to work with. The song is totally my life and floored me at the first hearing of the preproduction trax. I was able to feel this magnificant song because it spoke to my soul directly. It is an honor to have been a participant on this wonderful project.
Rumor has it, when you flew into Peoria that Justin Murr wasn't even there. What was up with that? We feel that is just rude and inconsiderate!
In all due respect, please don't call one of my good friends rude unless you know what you're talking about. Mr. Murr is a very honorable man with a huge plate full of responsibilities and can only humanly be in one place at a time bro, so chill and cut him some slack dude! Okay? He was on the phone constantly wishing he could be there in the flesh but was there totally in spirit. He had the highest professional confidence with Mike to produce me in his stead and I can see why he had such a confidence in Mike. He and I will meet some day. Justin has a good and tender heart for God and a love and passion for his music that will put this project over the top.
When can we expect a new Saint album and do you have a name for it and how much of it is done if any?
Mugluphfpf … frumpltrghghgh … whoa, dude suddenly I can't speak … We'll have to skip this one for now. K?
Name the 3 highest points and the 3 lowest points of your musical career to date.
Highest 4 not 3: Cornerstone 1986, Portland and Tacoma, opening for Rez, and singing to over a million people over the course of 2 months with "The Young Americans" in Washington D.C. at the Monument grounds in 1976. This was a tough question because there were so many amazing experiences on stage with Saint and The Young Americans.
The lowest points:
1. Playing in a bar band for about 20 drunk cowboys and 5 or so equally drunk cowgirls in 1995, Little Rock Arkansas.
2. Doing a set alone on a cruise ship because my then wife was throwing up from sea sickness in the wings. Poor dear. We were a duo with a sequencer and my guitar. It was rough getting through the songs when I could hear her hurling in the background.
3. Lip syncing to a recording of a young girl from my church singing a sacred, treasured national hymn purely for fun and to bring a smile to somber faces in the congegation almost 3 years ago. It was about as well-recieved as lighting a burst of flatulence in a funeral reception. In a congregation talent show it would have been enjoyed and appreciated. The parents practically called out the National Guard and still refuse to have any resolve with me over it. Everyone's loss! "Come on people,lighten up,it's been almost 3 years, it was just a stupid song!" I realized immediately by the shock on some of the faces and the slapping down her father gave me afterwards that it was innappropriate for me to be so playful at such a sacred venue.
I still think the closest thing to the pure adamic language is laughter which is health to the bones as the Bible says. Unfortunately there was not much laughter that day. Bad timing for a little humor. I've never felt so misunderstood. Yeah, that definitely was one of the lowest points! I'll quote Donald Trump as he advises us to think like a billionare. "Don't do silly things." Good advice Donald!
As a Christian musician do you care more about the music or the ministry?
Let me rephrase your question. "As a Christian homebuilder, do you care more about the craftsmanship and quality of the work to which you put your hand and your name, or do you care more about your example as an honest and fair employer-builder with integrity representing Christ?" I would have to say … hmmmmmmm … (A pondering moment of silence please.) … yes, I would have to say "Both."
We heard you love acting. If you could only do one, which would you prefer to do: acting or music?
Act in a musical. Okay, you want me to be serious. Hmmm … Well in music there is a great deal of theatrics, acting out and feeling the emotions in each song as though the song were a scene in a play or movie. On the other hand in acting, the highness and lowness of the voice in each inflection is like singing but not on any specific pitch. I'm really scratching my brain cells here. If the entertainment police were to haul me off to the dungeon of non-creativity and strip away my sense of humor and creativity with a life sentence of being a boring uncreative couch potato, I would have to go with music because you get to do both more easily. Music. Final answer.
How involved are you in your local church, and what do you believe?
Very involved. I believe that Jesus is God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Word, the Lamb that was slain, the Lord of all, the risen King, the mighty Savior of all mankind, the atonement for our sins, the One seated at the right hand of the Father, the only begotten Son of God. Lord of lords, King of kings, Imannuel, God with us. Through Him, with Him and in Him, all things were made and without Him nothing was made. Jesus was prophesied by the prophet Isaiah, born of the virgin Mary, crucified, died at the hands of evil men and rose again on the third day … Hey isn't there a band called Third Day?
Favorite salad dressing and fast food resturant?
Paul Newman's light. For some reason I smile every time I buy a jug. Was Paul Butch Cassidy or The Sundance Kid? Good stuff! Not sweet and less fat. It's the flavor of the week at present.
Definately McDonald's. The food is cheap, I love the veggie burger, they bust their butt to serve you quickly and my favorite slogan of the year was, "Who needs guilt?" Thank you, McDonald's, for those tasty tidbits of wisdom that really stick to my ribs and the low cholesterol doesn't stick to my veins with that wonderful vegi burger. How's that for a shameless plug?
"The last" of Josh Kramer
last TV show you watched?
Wheel of Fortune with my mom in California on Dec. 19, 2004.
last song you wrote?
Full Armor … I think. No wait, Cold day. No, No, No, wait, wait … uh … I know this one … um … No, it was … yep, Full Armor … or was it Cold day? … I don't know.
last CD you listened to?
Pillar. Whoa … Dude … These guys are really great! I love the tones! So chunky. Great singing! I gotta tell ya my other new favorite spins as of this week. Dynasty, Mortification and Wales Road.
last website you visited?
Power Metal De.
Are you wearing a leather vest and spandex now or do you wear normal clothes too?
Ow! I just scratched my self on one of my dog collar spikes. The leather is for stage only because I only have one pair of leather britches and at $100 plus I would have to flog myself if I messed them up. It's freezing here in Salem and I am really tempted to wear them around to keep warm. If you want to see what I wear to work go to my site on the Saint photo page and scroll to the one of me aiming my calking gun at the camera. Right now, I'm wearing my tore up jeans and a really warm but ugly sweater … (Kidding about the dog collar.)
You have a great voice do you have any training and have you ever shattered any glass?
Thank you. Tons of training and performance hands-on experience. I shattered glass once when I was 4 years old. My mom had these mason jars nice and neatly stacked up in the garage and I smashed a few of them (not with my voice) because I loved the cool loud sound it made. Boy did I get it that day!
What does 2005 and beyond hold for the musician Josh Kramer?
I don't know what I'm going to do tomorrow let alone this year. Cling to Jesus, stay in the Word, share my testimony of what Christ is doing in my life. I hope to see the stage as much as possible and as much as our old and new fans will want of us.
Josh, it appears that you are into karate. Are you like some kind of trained Ninja assassin?
Actually to be a Ninja, you have to live in a Japanese special forces training facility in a monk-like deeply religious focus. No comforts, pleasures, luxuries, girls, distractions, and … whoa, kinda sounds like my house! …
Where was I? Oh yeah, I don't study Karate per se. I started out in Kenpo Karate when I was in the 6th grade to fend off the guys in my school who liked going around extorting people at knife point, (nowadays it's at gun point), punching people at random in the face for a laugh as they walked by in the halls, and bouncing the nerds like me around in the bathroom shoving our heads in toilets for fun.
I love my Karate roots but my Sensei evolved us into Gung fu San Soo and varied forms of Gung Fu. A motto by which we were taught was to be respectful of all living things weather they spoke human or not. I've been in martial arts and trained with some of the finest Shurfu's (A.K.A. Sifu's) Sijai's and Sihingns since 1985. Currently I possess my 10th level B certification in Wah Lum Gung Fu by the Masterful Leroy Kautz and approved by Master Chan Pui. In Wah Lum, when you attain 10th level B it means you are now a beginner.
No, I'm not a trained assassin but I am well trained. My thing is to heal and mend and pick my fights wisely. I've never hit a female except for little Ellie May, my Sijai (Female assistant instructor) in a sparring match. Dude, I had to finally deliver some blows because she was getting mad at me for pansy punching and tickling her with my feet. She laid into me and dropped me a few times to get me to finally defend my self and give her somthing to work with in our sparring training. Wow … What a girl, but I've never nor will ever hit a girl not wearing a black sash and a referee standing by in a class environment.
In real life I've learned to run from personal physical danger not to it. If I am trapped and had to defend myself or my family against one or several attackers, I would come at them like an indomitable tornado. One day my good friend and brother in the Lord, Ken Palombo witnessed me rescuing a huge wasp nest from getting nuked and relocated them all far away from the house. If you have to do this, ask me how it's done some time. I can explain the trick to it where all of them will be moved without harming a single antenna or getting stung.
One day Ken was about to swat a jumping spider in his truck and I jumped in front of his newspaper, let it jump on my hand and put it in the grass when we slowed down to a stop. I rescue bugs on the window sill and put them outside. That's just me. I can't bring myself to harm anything on purpose except in self defense against bodily harm. I love God's creatures, human or not. I do eat meat sparingly but I give thanks to the Lord for the life of the animal which has become an occasional meal to sustain me through another week of very hard and demanding physical work.
And finally, a LNJ 4-ALL word association. We will mention a name or thing, and you give us your thoughts:
Mike Layne (Producer)
Remarkable! One of the best! Brutal behind the glass. I loved it! He never throws away a take until the final edit process is done. He saves every note, breath, belch and squalk. He's an audio pack rat and that's my favorite kind of engeneer. He pulls out the gold and makes music magic. He agrees that auto tuning a voice is a mortal sin punishable by fingernails on a chalk board. A truly talented man and very generous.
John Mahan (Guitarist)
I miss him very much. He was a dear friend and pioneering guitarist. We've not had contact for almost a year.
Pastor Bob Beeman
An angel disguised as a human. We're always delighted to see each other. A life long friend. A pillar of wisdom, inner strength and Godly standards. A morally upright and honest man. He blesses me every chance he gets.
Ian Keith Hafner (Angry Little Freak)
An umpteenth level black belt Tai Quando mad man and a total pussy cat to his wife. The way a good man should be. Ian and I have kept in touch for over a year and he has been my leaning post and dear friend through some lonly moments. We've never met but we've become great friends on line and in spirit.
Scott Wenzel (White Cross)
I think the World of Scott! He is a very soft spoken and humble guy. Amazing singer! One day in the mid 90's while I was at work in Nashville, we bumped into each other on a job site both wearing painter pants, paint encrusted baseball hats and paint splattered white tee shirts. I had short hair, a beard and mustache and he looked like himself with his big hair in a pony tail. We both stopped for a moment and stared at each other. I said, "Scott Wenzel?" He was equally as amazed as I was. "Josh Kramer?" We laughed and talked for a few moments about events and that was the last I saw him. Bless his good heart! He is a good man, a hard worker and almost as good a painter as me.
Justin Murr (Liberty n' Justice)
The mystery man. Phantom of the production room! He is a generous and kind hearted hard working man of great integrity. Knows exactly what he wants in a performance and does not settle for second best. He is a visionary and a very good business man. I am looking forward to doing another project with him. He said he was going to treat me to a chinese buffet so he still owes me one.
Dale Thompson (Bride)
Dale is an enigma to me. I appreciate his fine performance in front of a mic. We had the opportunity to meet in 1988 at the HIS Fest. But few words passed between us. He has yet to reply to my email. It's been almost a year. I respect their success. I know nothing of them personally.
Dee Harrington (Saint)
Dee is one of my dearest friends. A very mellow and soft spoken and humble man. We first met when I saw this long haired dude wearing his metal garb and red leather pants walking around salem. I was riding my touring bike, stopped and invited him to hear the Warriors Of The Son preproduction cassette in my walkman. He was impressed and we exchanged info. He said that he is a guitarist. I mentioned to him that I was a guitar teacher so we scheduled a couple of lessons. He already had a vast knowledge of guitar but I did manage to show him a couple of things that he was not up to speed on technique-wise and we've been good friends since. His guitar playing now is very zappa-influenced sounding with absolutly vicious leads. He goes really outside with his melodies but stays within the bounds of earths gravity and always ends on a happy note. It is great having him back in the band and in contact.
Ed Suey (Your past employer)
Ed was my former employer from 1996 to 2002. He kicked my butt into shape and expected no less than supurlative performance from me at his job sites and residence. You can hear one of his song samples on my patriotic's page in my website. He and his wife saw me through the best and the worst of times for 7 years while living in Nashville. He entrusted me with his estate and properties to keep the wheel very well-greased and rollin rollin rollin! He and his family honor me as one of their dearest and well loved friends. There will always be a special place in my heart for his family. God Bless, Ed Suey!
Reagan Brann (One of your music students)
Last but far from least. While back there visiting in Nashville as a stopover from Peoria, I had an opportunity to visit so many wonderful friends that I've gotten to know in the almost 10 years living there. Thanks so much to Justin and his company I got to finish a scene that I had envisioned in my head for two years where one of the characters from part one does a cameo appearance in part two. It turned out absolutely epic. Oh yeah, Reagan … sorry dude, I got swept up in a memory-moment there for a second. Her family invited me to breakfast the morning of Sunday Nov. 7 and then to their church service. I got to hand-deliver to them a copy of the production as is to date, (before the make over).
I inherited her when she was 7 from my then wife who was relinquishing all of her students to me so that she could focus on her songwriting. Reagan is this wonder-human, prodigy, genius, pianist, modern-day Mozart and earned her place in my production performing two original songs, twp classical songs and sneaked in a giggle as one of the grandkids in the opening scene. She is the wind up music box playing "Fur Elise" at the beginning of scene one. She is now 12, a foot and a half taller and adorable as a young girl can humanly be. She was very excited to show me some of her newest classical accomplishments while I was visiting in nashville this past November.
I am so proud of her! She and her family were as happy to see me as I was to see them. What an angel she is! She can play very difficult pieces of classical music now. Her older brother Weston was one of the actors in my production. He is an all star athlete, and aspiring filmmaker. When we play Nashville some day, I want to hire him to slide across the stage on slick knee pads with a camera in his hands for live video footage. He can and would love to do it too! Christian, her youngest brother, is a violinist and a great kid, too. Her dad is an accomplished mandolinist and mom is proud of them all. She is totally supportive of their artistic accomplishments and dreams. I am so blessed to have so many wonderful people in my life. I've heard it said that a person with many good friends is truly a wealthy person. This makes me one of the wealthiest men on Earth.
Very cool, thanks Josh and for those reading it now start from the top and read it again. Well, what are you waiting for?